Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of boxing octuple champions

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. PhilKnight (talk) 01:10, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

List of boxing octuple champions

List of boxing octuple champions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics

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We have the page Octuple champion, then this page, and the page Manny Pacquiao. The first explains whatever an octuple champion is, and the last focuses on the sole octuple champion there is. The List, however, is a 14K page listing 7 times the achievements of Pacquiao, and nothing else. There are no octuple champions, there is only one such, so there is no list either. Attempts by multiple editors, including myself, to redirect this list to the Pacquaio article, as a compromise, where reverted each time (5 times so far). Talk page discussion hasn't achieved anything either. Basically, this is as it stands a duplicative page of Manny Pacquaio and octuple champion, and wuold be in any case an unlikely redirect as well, so I don't see much purpose in keeping the redirect either, but I prefer, if it comes to that, the redirect very, very clearly above a separate article. Fram (talk) 11:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Delete, per WP:SALAT. The list is too specific - there's only one item on it. There's also been arguments that there may eventually be other octuple champions, but that contradicts WP:CRYSTAL. --Jtalledo (talk) 11:47, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
• Merge to Octuple champion. List of boxing octuple champions has some useful information that is missing from Octuple champion but treating it as a list is pointles when it is, infact, just information about the title and the sole claimant to that title.--Korruski^Talk 11:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. The information isn't unique, it pretty much follows the template of List of boxing septuple champions and similar lists. --Jtalledo (talk) 12:18, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Delete. Good point, I hadn't realised that. Thanks.--Korruski^Talk 16:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Do not delete, it's not the first time that there are is an athlete better (and unique). It is not his blame to be the best. Also, the article was "disappeared" or "removed" last night without consensus. The person who deleted-removed it is definitively a very mediocre obsessed man (this is not military or else) and has problems in personal live with Mr. Pacquiao. Send an e-mail to the author of the article so he can defense his/her points here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.75.109 (talk • contribs) 06:54, 18 November 2010
  • Comment Do not make ad hominem arguments. Please review Wikipedia:No personal attacks. --Jtalledo (talk) 12:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment I am sorry, apologises. Please give us more time to vote. The people don't know yet. Have a wonderful day and again, I am sorry. =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.75.109 (talk) 12:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment It's a very long article, but there's only one person actually on the list: "At present, Manny Pacquiao is the first and only boxer in history to win world titles in eight different weight divisions." I suppose it could be redirected to Manny Pacquiao. Part of the reason for his accomplishment is that there are a lot more weight divisions now than there were in the past. Hence, he's been the champ in the divisions of flyweight, super bantamweight, featherweight, super featherweight, junior lightweight, lightweight, junior welterweight, welterweight, and super welterweight. The weight divisions span a range of about 45 pounds, with Pacquiao being 112 lbs at flyweight and 154 at "super welterweight". Mandsford 13:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Note. The AfD notice has now been removed twice from the article. I have restored it once, but the message that said notice should stay on the article may carry more force if it is done by someone previously uninvolved with this article. Fram (talk) 14:16, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I have added it to my watchlist, and will keep an eye on it.--Korruski^Talk 14:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Delete It looks like a well-written article, but again, it's basically a list of one that has been dressed up with extraneous information to cover up that fact. Angryapathy (talk) 14:31, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Do not delete This page is important and educative. He is just the first sportsman to have that recognition.

~~Io_Wiki2007~~ (talk) 22:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes indeed, just as Barrack Obama is the first black president of the USA. For now, it is wholly unecessary to have a List of black Presidents of the USA. At some point, perhaps, that may change. But not yet.--Korruski^Talk 16:36, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

x-------------x Nov 18, 2010, Thursday, 23:00hrs: DO NOT DELETE: Defining the word "list" with EVEN one item or person on it, clearly separates 'ONE' unique and superlatively one record achievement segregating that item amongst all "lists" of achievements surmountably gained by that person extremely regarded as world-acclaimed considerably treating it as "one in a billion feat amongst earth's inhabitants" super as it does unbelievable, IS ONE GOOD REASON ABOVE ALL that this page list of "List of Boxing Octuple Champions" MUST NOT, BY AND THROUGH A CRYSTAL-CLEAR ACHIEVEMENT - BE REMOVED, DELETED OR REDIRECTED. The fact that a previous "Septuplet List of Boxing Champions" was created having 2 world-acclaimed persons in it, DOES NOT DIFFER IN ANY MEANS OR IN ANY ANGLE POSED ANY GOOD REASON TO DELETE the list, "List of Octuplet Boxing Champions".

This would take us all TO PONDER and PUT A HUGE QUESTION MARK ON OUR HEADS to justify NOT DELETING this quite essential WIKI "List of Octuplet Boxing Champions" distinct and separate from all 7 lists existing, start to ask yourselves this equation-question: "Will time wait for another 25-50 or a hundred years for the 2nd man to do the duplicate feat before creating this List of Octuplet Boxing Champions, where ONE LONE MAN has already done it at this IMPORTANT MOMENT IN TIME?"

...please do not delete this page nor redirect, as it ENTAILS QUITE DISTINCT AND A crystal-clear UNIQUE AND A DIFFERENT FEAT OF ACHIEVEMENT list above all existing 7 lists of boxing champions. - Mamerto C. Macaranas, Jr. @jmacmert@yahoo.com; m.macaranas@ncbc.com, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.5.172.10 (talk) 20:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

• Do not delete. I concur will the people want this page to stay. I have nothing else to say because they already said what I think. So, please, do not delete this important page. It will be unforgivable. Thanks you.First Time Writer (talk) 22:08, 18 November 2010 (UTC) — First Time Writer is a confirmed sockpuppet of Io_Wiki2007-Korruski^Talk 17:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC).

• Don't Delete it I find that this list (not matter is just one single person) is still a list, in fact a very special list. I want the page (list) to stay. What Mamerto C. Macaranas, Jr said here is right. Kudos to him.Aguacate derio8888 (talk) 22:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC) — Aguacate derio8888 has been blocked as a sockpuppet of Io_Wiki2007-Korruski^Talk 17:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC).

• Delete as totally unnecessary. I get the feeling that there is some sockpuppetry going on here and would like to warn anyone who is using multiple accounts that they can be blocked right down to their IP for that. Apart from which, single purpose accounts tend to be not taken into account as much as regulars under circumstances like this. If they behave properly, read the policies and post relevantly, they will be. Peridon (talk) 00:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment I agree. Some of the posts here seem quite suspicious. Therefore, just to be sure, I have begun a sockpuppet investigation and requested checkuser.--Korruski^Talk 09:12, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Merge to octuple champion, otherwise redundant to that one. --Jayron32 04:28, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

• DO NOT DELETE THE PAGE - List of boxing octuple champions. There are pages that shows the lists of boxing champions in different weight divisions like List of boxing triple champions for a boxer who won world titles in three (3) different weight divisions, List of boxing quadruple champions for four (4), List of boxing quintuple champions for five (5), List of boxing sextuple champions for six (6), and List of boxing septuple champions for seven (7) different weight divisions. And this page is all about the List of boxing Octuple Champions for a boxer who won world titles in eight (8) different weight divisions and this is not only pertains to one boxer. These lists of boxing champions in different number of weights also shows the different titles (sanctioning bodies) won by the boxer, the date of championship, the boxer's opponents for the title fight, the result of the fight and the number of defense for the world title. These lists also shows and separates the boxers' Major and Minor Titles with The Ring Title as the official version of the lineal champion included in the list of Major Titles. In this page, it just so happened that Manny Pacquiao became the first and, currently, the only boxer who won world titles in 8 different weight divisions. If another boxer will win world titles in 8 weight divisions, then his name will be included in this page. I, therefore, support that this page SHOULD NOT BE deleted or redirected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doughn (talk • contribs) 05:17, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 06:46, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

• COMMENT/NOTE TO FILE:

As a support to my previous argument, "NOT TO DELETE" this "List of Octuple Boxing Champions" page at Wiki's, firstly, to vouch and certify my stand and position, my valid yahoo account is: jmacmert@yahoo.com; and im connected with NCB Capital, an investment bank in Jeddah, KSA with which anyone can validly email me at: m.macaranas@ncbc.com, or contact at: +966-551-348251.

My only plead and humble contention NOT TO DELETE this one page "List of Octuple Boxing Champions" is, NOT THAT, I AM A FILIPINO and a COMPATRIOT OF Manny Pacman Pacquiao BY RACE, BUT BY SOLE AND SIMPLE REASON THAT - "a feat, equivalent to almost a lifetime, or at the most - a century period of time for all of us humans to wait, whose average capability at one speciality extraordinarily achieved - is limited to a normal achievement, as to live and co-exist with co-humans as normal as we are. This recent ONE FEAT ACHIEVEMENT THAT IS YET TO BE DUPLICATED ON FUTURE PERIOD OF UNCERTAINTY - is definitely quite deserving of a distinct, 1 full exclusive page of decent, respect, and special recognition of that "extra-ordinary" human achievement in this era, moreover in our lifetime.

To reiterate on my other position and stand, WE CAN NEVER EVER BE GIVEN ANOTHER SUCH SIMILAR FEAT TRULY a GOD-SPECIAL GIVEN SKILL TO ATTAIN SUCH EXTRA HEIGHTS OF INGENUITY, maybe by tommorow, next month, next year, next decade or the next century - OR WE CAN NEVER EVER TELL THE TIME. Thus, please, i beg u all to be considerate and fair enough on this very special moment in time of our lives where one impossible feat has been achieved, the fact that to even co-exist with this extra-ordinary ATHLETE IS CONSIDERED, ONE BEST SPECIAL GIFT GOD HAS GIVEN US IN THIS UNPARALLELED era, a one-hardest feat has been remarkably reached for the last 80 years, or at the time immemorial of boxing history in our own time - the 21st century's early period.

Think about it - are we REASONABLE ENOUGH IF WE WONT ALLOW THIS PAGE TO FLUORISH TRIUMPHANTLY IN RESPECT OF THAT MAN, supposedly deserving full screen page for even 20KB space equivalent, in respect of what has been achieved at its incredible manner?

On other contentions, would it be nice and wonderful, then, that WIKI team prepared it now, THAN WAIT FOR THE 2ND MAN TO DO THE SAME FEAT, on uncertainty of another time, then re-create it later? WHICH ACTION THEN FOR YOU IS ABOUNDING WITH A VIVID AND A CRYSTAL-CLEAR UNSELFISHNESS TO TREAT ONE WITH NICE AND WONDERFUL ACTION AND GESTURE TO PROVIDE HIM WITH RECOGNITION AND FULL DISPLAY OF WHAT, WHO, WHERE, HOW, WHEN, WHY INFORMATIVE-PROVIDING CONJUNCTIONS FOR MANKIND TO KNOW? at this point in time ur life? DELETE OR NOT TO DELETE, let thine modern-civilized conscience, "simple" as it is be put over and above the rest of the best of the olden times, when the world was as young as the great writers of medieval, roman times where "gladiators" only destination for formidability, super-agility and fame - ENDS BY A DEATH OF CO-GLADIATORS... how come we know NOT OF EVEN ONE OF THEM TODAY?

Wiki it now, today and further, lest we be put to regret and blame for only the simplest thing and action we will put today against our grandsons and daughters in century's to come, i beg u all, PLEASE DO NOT DELETE AND PROCEED TO PUBLISH UNCHALLENGED, AN ACT OF FAIR AND TRUE MISSIONARY VISION OF PROPAGATING HONESTY, TRUTH, BALANCED AND EQUALITY IN FOOTING FOUNDATION OF INFORMATION AND RECOGNITION OF THOSE DESERVING.

Lastly, i am a valid account yahoo user and an avid Yahoo Answers Boxing Section blogger-contributor with a Y/Answers handle as: junMjeddahKSA, and currently employed as a contractor-staff at National Commercial Bank Capital, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia (an investment bank)

Respectfully submitted with full arguments and position NOT TO DELETE THIS ESSENTIAL PAGE, "List of Octuple Boxing Champions" ..... I REST MY CASE. 213.5.172.10 (talk) Truly yours, JUN MACARANAS, 19November 2010 @13:16, KSA Time 213.5.172.10 (talk) 10:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - while I don't wish to stifle your right to make your argument in the way you see fit, I should point out that having a longer argument does not necessarily mean having a stronger argument. Indeed, the closing administrator is unlikely to even read a wall of text, especially one which is largely off-the-point, not rooted in Wikipedia Policies, and interspersed with random capitalisations. May I suggest that now that you have had the chance to make your case you just take a step back and wait for more people to comment, rather than continuing to add to an AfD that is becoming increasingly unreadable.--Korruski^Talk 10:28, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment I'd add that there's nothing to stop the author and his friends from bringing out the fact that Manny Pacquiao has won titles in eight different weight divisions, or that this is unprecedented. The issue here is whether that fact is notable enough for a separate article. It may be "septuple" in this instance, since some would consider "super featherweight" and "junior lightweight" to be the same 127 to 130 pound class. Mandsford 13:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Delete: It isn't as if there's anything to merge not already in the Pacquiao article. Truth be told, I quailed from going through all those turgid, overlong paeans to save this "article," in search of an actual valid policy ground to retain it. Perhaps the sock/meatpuppets would care to proffer one, concisely?  Ravenswing  15:43, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment It's almost funny that the sockpuppet(s) are acting as though deleting this "List" is the same as deleting the Paquio article. The information conatined here is already at two other articles. As said above, arguments need to be rooted in WP policy, and not in, "IT'S A GREAT ACHIEVMENT DON'T DELETE". Angryapathy (talk) 16:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Delete. Great achievement. Bad list. pablo 16:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
• Delete The article Octuple champion is already about 8 time boxing champions and consists of a single name so this article just replicates an existing one. All previous articles about multiple division boxing winners have been titled in the form "n-tuple champion". In addition, both seem to run afoul of WP:SALAT since they're "lists" consisting of 1 name. Papaursa (talk) 04:46, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
• Delete, as per Wikipedia:Overcategorization among other criteria. I suggest immediate deletion--WP:SNOW clearly applies here.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:04, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
• Delete and rename List of boxing septuple champions to List of boxing septuple or more champions so that Manny Pacquiao's accomplishments will be recognized without needing a separate article to do that. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:50, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
• DO NOT DELETE. This page does not refer to one boxer only. It does not attribute the boxer's autobiography. These lists shows the different sanctioning bodies/titles won by the boxer by weight divisions, the date of championship, the opponents of the boxer for the title fight, the fight result and the total number of world title defense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.241.217 (talk) 00:14, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment - note that the above ip user initially added an earlier 'do not delete' !vote in this discussion, the one now dated 05:17, 19 November 2010, and signed by Doughn. It looks from the history as if the ip user made the post, then deleted it. Shortly afterwards Doughn reposted it. To me, that suggests that he and the ip user may be one and the same. If so, the above !vote is not valid.--Korruski^Talk 11:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment - User Doughn copied my first statement. Maybe he/she wants to repost it. I want to revise my statement because I want it short and simple. DO NOT DELETE THIS PAGE. It is very relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.241.217 (talk • contribs) 22 November 2010
• Delete Giving the same information in 3 separate articles makes no sense. I do like Metropolitan90's suggestion about renaming List of boxing septuple champions. Astudent0 (talk) 15:24, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
• Delete I haven't seen one valid argument for keeping this article and several valid ones for deletion. 131.118.229.17 (talk) 23:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
• DO NOT DELETE. This page is very important. Its not about the boxer, its all about the different titles won by a boxer. Like the List of boxing Triple Champions, Quadruple Champions, Quintuple Champions, Sextuple Champions and Septuple Champions pages, it describes why a boxer became a Champion in Multiple Divisions by showing the different titles he won in different weight divisions. Before Manny Pacquiao won the sixth division world title, Oscar De La Hoya, the first and only six-divison world champion THAT TIME, was listed in the list of major title holders in the List of boxing sextuple champions page. De La Hoya is the only one listed in the list of major title holders of that page (the time before Pacquiao won the six-division world title) but no one suggested that it should be deleted or redirected. So this List of boxing octuple champions page SHOULD NOT BE DELETED. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.200.251.189 (talk) 11:17, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.